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Steven Davis talks with Jason Barnard about career mobility.
Steven Davis, CEO and Managing Director of Renaissance Solutions, Inc., talks with Jason Barnard about how emotional intelligence, digital presence, and intentional networking are reshaping the future of career growth.
Steven emphasizes the power of showing up authentically—on LinkedIn, in the workplace, and even in Google’s search results. He stresses that confidence doesn’t mean being the loudest in the room; it’s about clarity, consistency, and connection.
Steven Davis and Jason Barnard also explore how internal and external mobility are influenced by visibility, relationships, and your digital footprint. They highlight how mapping the room and following up with empathy can accelerate your leadership path. If you’re a professional or a leader ready to build meaningful momentum in your career, this episode is absolutely for you.
What you’ll learn from Steven Davis
- 00:00 Steven Davis and Jason Barnard
- 01:38 What Did Jason Barnard Find When He Searched Steven Davis on Google?
- 01:51 What Did Jason Find When He Searched for Steven Davis in Europe?
- 02:25 What Challenge Does Someone Face When They Have a Popular Name Like Steven Davis?
- 02:48 What Should You Do to Make Your Name Stand Out if Your Personal Brand Is Important to You?
- 03:43 What Did Jason Barnard Emphasize When He Looked Up Steven Davis on ChatGPT?
- 04:15 What Does Steven Davis Do?
- 04:40 What Makes Steven Davis Qualified to Talk About Career Pivots?
- 04:57 What Have Decision Makers Been Shown to Care About When Evaluating a Job Candidate’s Background?
- 06:12 Why Does the Way You Present Yourself Not Change Depending on Who You Are Presenting To?
- 06:22 Why Are the First 30 to 40 Seconds of a Presentation So Important?
- 06:45 What Factors Do People Analyze to Determine if Someone Fits a Role Based on How They Communicate?
- 07:13 Why is it Both About Emotional and Professional Qualifications During a Presentation or Interview?
- 07:32 What Factors Does Steven Davis Consider When Selecting Candidates During an Interview?
- 08:09 Why Did Steven Davis Still Send Candidates Who Did Not Meet All the Qualifications for C-Level Role?
- 08:35 Why is Emotional Connection Considered the Most Important Part in Presenting Yourself?
- 08:53 What Makes a CV Stand Out Enough to Prompt an Interview Even if the Qualifications Are Just Average?
- 10:05 What Are the Most Important Things to Do When Presenting Yourself on Paper or Online?
- 10:36 What Platforms Should You Prioritize When Trying to Pivot Within or Between Companies?
- 11:47 How Do You Express Your Personal Brand on Platforms Like LinkedIn and Google?
- 11:56 Why is it Important to Make a Strong First Impression When Trying to Change Careers?
- 12:12 Why Do Recruiters Eliminate Candidates Quickly During the Hiring Process?
- 13:05 What Role Does the LinkedIn Headline & About Section Play in Showing Your Personality to Recruiters?
- 14:20 What Should Professionals Keep in Mind When Expressing Themselves on Their LinkedIn Profile?
- 15:46 Why Do You Need to Be Careful When Disagreeing During a Pitch With a Company Like IBM?
- 17:52 Why is Visibility and Positive Impression Important When Networking on LinkedIn for a Job Position?
- 19:17 What Can Your Google Search Result Be Compared To?
- 19:31 Why Do We Use Google?
- 20:21 What Do We Usually Look for When Searching on Google?
- 20:28 Why Does What Appears About You in Google Search Results Matter for Your Reputation?
- 21:24 What Old Expression Did We Learn About Achieving Success in Our Careers?
- 21:53 What is Considered More Important for Success Than Who You Know at Work?
- 22:16 What Questions Do People Seeking a Promotion Commonly Ask About Moving Up?
- 22:41 What Should You Consider When Identifying Key People to Help You Get Promoted?
- 24:06 What Steps Can You Take to Increase Your Visibility and Awareness for Internal Mobility?
- 25:00 What Are the Two Pillars of Emotional Intelligence That Support Effective Communication?
- 27:25 What Should You Say to People Who Feel Hesitant or Embarrassed About Following Up After Applying?
This episode was recorded live on video April 29th 2025
Links to pieces of content relevant to this topic:
https://renaissance-sol.com/workshops/
Steven Davis
Transcript from Steven Davis with Jason Barnard on Fastlane Founders And Legacy. Career Mobility
[00:00:00] Steven Davis: You don’t want to come across as being desperate. Because if you…
[00:00:08] Steven Davis: Thank you for that reaction!
[00:00:11] Steven Davis: …if you connect with the recruiter and you connect with the VP and then you say, oh, let’s see who else I can connect with. The recruiter could say, Hey, did you see Jason connected with Steve Davis and Frank Smith and Harriet Jones? He’s all over the place. Maybe he’s got a problem. We have that one chance to make that impression.
[00:00:31] Jason Barnard: There’s a balance between enthusiasm and desperation.
[00:00:36] Steven Davis: Precisely.
[00:00:37] Narrator: Fastlane Founders and Legacy with Jason Barnard. Each week, Jason sits down with successful entrepreneurs, CEOs and executives, and get them to share how they mastered the delicate balance between rapid growth and enduring success in the business world.
[00:00:54] Narrator: How can we quickly build a profitable business that stands the test of time and becomes our legacy? A legacy we’re proud of! Fastlane Founders and Legacy with Jason Barnard.
[00:01:06] Jason Barnard: A quick hello and we’re good to go. Welcome to the show, Stephen Davis.
[00:01:16] Steven Davis: Thank you. I’m proud to be here.
[00:01:18] Jason Barnard: Brilliant. I’m delighted to have you. And today we’re going to talk about career changes, career pivot, why a Personal Brand might be important for that, and how you can help yourself along on a career pivot, whatever level of a company you’re at, but especially C-level.
[00:01:34] Jason Barnard: And for me, entrepreneurs is my favorite topic. But before that, I’ve actually found, I search your name on Google and your problem, if I may, is not necessarily a problem, but certainly there were a lot of famous people with the name Steven Davis. And I found when I searched in Europe, a football player, a soccer player, and a snooker player.
[00:01:59] Steven Davis: Yes, I know the snooker player because I’m a big pool player here in the United States so my namesake is a snooker champion in the UK.
[00:02:09] Jason Barnard: Yeah, and we used to call him when I was a kid, boring Steve Davis. And that’s not the case with you, is it?
[00:02:16] Steven Davis: No. Thank you. I’ve got to go now. It’s been a pleasure to meet you.
[00:02:22] Jason Barnard: Brilliant. Wonderful. Delightful introduction, but I think one of the important things here from our perspective at Kalicube is when you’ve got a popular name like Steven Davis, you have a problem of ambiguity and competition that I don’t think people really think about. And when you have, when you share a famous a name that somebody famous likes Steven Davis, the footballer, or Steve Davis, the snooker player, you either have to become more famous than them. Which I don’t think is likely to happen, or you need to add something to your name, middle initial, middle name, or your industry or something unique to make you stand out if your Personal Brand is important to you, but it’s not always important. I always think it is. Is it important to you or not?
[00:03:10] Steven Davis: Extremely important. However, if a Google search is done with Steven Davis, coach, I’m got to show up. I don’t think the football player would show up. Plus with me Jason, my priority is my business, Renaissance Solutions. And Renaissance was selected because it connotates new beginning and that is more important to me than my name.
[00:03:35] Jason Barnard: Right. A hundred percent. And I think that’s really important is I tend to get obsessed about dominating of your own name and it isn’t necessarily important.
[00:03:43] Jason Barnard: What is important though, is that the machine, Google, ChatGPT, Perplexity, understands who you are and what you do, who you can serve, and that you’re trustworthy. And I’ve looked you up on ChatGPT and ChatGPT is perfectly happy with you in your current circumstance.
[00:03:59] Steven Davis: What a relief. Thank you.
[00:04:01] Jason Barnard: The future is yours, Steven. Tell me really quickly what you do and why you are qualified to talk about career pivots and why Personal Brand might be important in that.
[00:04:13] Steven Davis: Thanks for asking, Jason.
[00:04:15] Steven Davis: I started my career as a recruiter and I found that I was very successful in being able to present candidates to hiring managers because I schedule anywhere from 10 to 20 interviews a week.
[00:04:29] Steven Davis: And every recruiter’s reputation is based on the quality of the candidates they send to decision makers. Whether they’re recruiters in human resources or they’re actual hiring managers. So why am I qualified to do this? Spent over 20 years filling jobs at companies like Morgan Stanley, Sharing Cloud, Johnson and Johnson, NBC television, a lot of companies in entertainment, JP Morgan Chase, many other companies. And what I’ve learned along the way is that looking for a job, whether it’s internally at someone’s company or externally, it isn’t about the job seeker. It isn’t about the person that is interested in internal mobility. That’s not what it’s about.
[00:05:15] Steven Davis: It’s more about who’s looking at someone’s background, who’s interviewing someone, and what decision makers want to see and what they want to sense and what they want to hear. So what qualifies me, I believe, is my ability to have emotional intelligence sufficiently enough to understand what people’s desires are, what motivates them, and what doesn’t motivate them.
[00:05:48] Jason Barnard: So we have a question there of presentation. I, as somebody who wants to pivot my career in one way or another, needs to present myself in a way that the person I’m presenting myself to appreciates emotionally and professionally. Does my presentation change depending on who I’m presenting myself to?
[00:06:10] Steven Davis: That’s a great question.
[00:06:12] Steven Davis: I don’t think it does inherently. I don’t because we only have one chance to make a first impression. If you’re presenting from the time you start your presentation, whether you’re on an interview or you’re at a performance review, or you’re being considered for promotion, the first 30 to 40 seconds of what comes out of your mouth is going to be analyzed from the person or people that you’re talking to, and they’re immediately trying to understand your behavior, your thinking, your motivation, your enthusiasm, your empathy. All these emotions come into play and people are in their minds trying to visualize, is Jason going to fit in this role based on how he communicates?
[00:07:09] Jason Barnard: Is it more about emotion than it is about professional qualifications?
[00:07:13] Steven Davis: It’s both, Jason. It really is both. However, I can’t tell you how many times I have presented. When I was recruiting, I would never send more than five people for any job if I didn’t have anyone that I thought was a slam dunk and a guaranteed getting, I wouldn’t send anyone.
[00:07:32] Steven Davis: So if job description asks for certain requirements and experience, I would ask those questions during interviews, and if I had four people who had 90% or more of the qualifications that were required, and I had one person who only had 70%, however, that 70% person had a connection to me. Where the person was, a good listener, was empathetic, was asking brilliant questions, I would invariably send all five of them, and I would always get a pushback from some manager or some director of HR saying, Steve, this is a C-level position. Why would you send some he doesn’t have this, she doesn’t have that, she know why and my answer was because I know you’re going to connect with a person. If you don’t, I will never call you again.
[00:08:26] Steven Davis: And more times than not that person got the offer. To your point, you need the qualifications, you also need the connection.
[00:08:35] Jason Barnard: But from what I hear there, and it’s what my been my experience as well, is the connection is possibly more important in the sense that once you’ve got to the minimum possible level of being able to present yourself reasonably in a situation, it’s the emotional aspect that’s going to count the most. I had a thing when I was taking people on is if there was something in their CV that stood out that made me take a double look, there was slightly unusual or slightly adventurous or a slightly cheeky, I would always interview them if they had the relevant qualifications, more or less, and that would come to the same thing.
[00:09:14] Jason Barnard: Would you advise that or is that just me?
[00:09:19] Steven Davis: Everyone has their own style. Unfortunately, there’s no university course on how to conduct interviews.
[00:09:26] Jason Barnard: Done. Okay.
[00:09:28] Steven Davis: So to your credit, I think it’s working for you. Continue to do it.
[00:09:34] Jason Barnard: Okay, brilliant. Yeah, so now we’ve got to stage where to get the interview, either I’m sending my CV and an application letter, or I’m going through somebody, a third party who’s pre-sorting.
[00:09:48] Jason Barnard: But at some point I have to present myself on paper or online. What are the hugely important things that I need to do there, and what is the likelihood that the person on the other end is got to look me up on Google or ChatGPT or something similar?
[00:10:04] Steven Davis: Well, great question. You can be sure that you’re got to be looked up on Google. There’s got to be a background check done and for sure people are got to look you up on LinkedIn.
[00:10:15] Jason Barnard: Right. So you’ve got Linked. Is LinkedIn the number one and Google number two then?
[00:10:21] Steven Davis: Well, for business networking and recruiters, by the way, live on LinkedIn and hiring managers in most cases would not even schedule an interview unless they looked at the person’s profile on LinkedIn.
[00:10:36] Jason Barnard: So my priority, whatever level I’m at, and whatever I’m trying to do, either pivot within a company or pivot from one company to another is focus on LinkedIn, number one. Google, number two. ChatGPT would come a distant third.
[00:10:50] Steven Davis: I would say. So in my humble opinion, yes.
[00:10:54] Jason Barnard: No. Brilliant.
[00:10:56] Steven Davis: Because, LinkedIn has 1 billion users, according to, you know, their statistics after Microsoft bought them yet 1 billion users. And every single day they have 100, I have it written down, 165 million people that are live on the platform daily. Wow.
[00:11:15] Jason Barnard: Okay. Makes a lot of sense. So from that perspective, my Personal Brand, let’s move on to Personal Brand. Because we’ve decided that LinkedIn is number one., Google’s number two, ChatGPT, you can put it aside for the moment. In the future, I think people are got to be looking at things like ChatGPT, Perplexity, Copilot.
[00:11:34] Jason Barnard: But that’s me looking for the future, being a futurist. To what extent is my definition of my Personal Brand going to make a difference, and how do I express it on these platforms?
[00:11:47] Steven Davis: Your ability to express who you are and as you say, your Personal Brand is everything. Because if you’re looking to get a change in your career, and let’s say you want to move to another company, recruiters are trained. They are the gatekeeper, as you know, between you and the hiring team.
[00:12:12] Steven Davis: So they’re trained to eliminate candidates. They are not trained to keep listening or reading or researching until they find what they’re looking for. As soon as they sense that something doesn’t read right or it doesn’t sound right, or it doesn’t even seem like what they’re looking for, the person is eliminated and they will never ever know it.
[00:12:33] Steven Davis: So the Personal Brand on LinkedIn, there’s a headlight section that’s right under someone’s knee. It has a maximum capacity of 220 characters, and that section is what recruiters use after they get a job. What they do is they’re all trained to find the best available talent, and they’re got to look in their database, and they’re got to have resumes, they’re got to have candidates, they’re got to have CVs.
[00:13:00] Steven Davis: They’re all trained to go on LinkedIn and run a keyword search using the LinkedIn recruiters version. And that headline section is what’s first utilized, searching for key words in the job description, then to your point, there’s an about section. That’s the place where you can use first person, I, I’m very proud.
[00:13:22] Steven Davis: You can’t do that in a CV and it’s not proper. So, you know, I’ve been working for x amount of years, I’ve been accomplishing these achievement. It’s a place where a manager and a recruiter can get some semblance of what someone’s personality is like by what they’re saying, and that’s part of emotional intelligence and it’s part of executive presence. Which is one of the hiring decisions, whether someone’s up for a promotion, internal mobility, or they’re looking to get an interview externally at another company.
[00:13:56] Jason Barnard: Right. Oh, that makes me think of something. And I’m not doing promotion for a particular platform, but we have been using Human Linker. And what Human Linker does is analyze the LinkedIn profile and the feed and then do a D-I-S-C analysis. Is that something likely to happen today?
[00:14:15] Steven Davis: I would think that’s very logical and probably very likely. It’s a great point. Yes, I think so.
[00:14:21] Jason Barnard: Beyond your profile where you can say, I’m proud. And I think that’s a really good point is I tell my team, don’t say I’m the best at, or I did this and I’m super duper amazing. Say, I’m very proud of what I achieved here. Because nobody can say you’re not proud, although they can say what you did was not brilliant.
[00:14:40] Jason Barnard: So that idea of I’m very proud, I love about the term. But you also have to look after your feed and be careful about how you’re expressing yourself because your personality and character come out through that. And there are now tools that can analyze that.
[00:14:54] Steven Davis: That’s right. And a related topic, people post different ideas on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Twitter, on X, everywhere they post their thoughts. If, let’s say someone at IBM posts something and Jason Barnard wants to work at IBM. And Jason disagrees with the person that wrote something on IBM’s LinkedIn and Jason says, you know, thanks for your posts, but I disagree.
[00:15:28] Steven Davis: That’s got to cost someone to look at your profile, the person that wrote the post much more than if Jason says, I agree with that. That’s a great post. Thank you. Okay. Big deal. But if someone disagrees, they’re more inclined to look at your profile.
[00:15:46] Jason Barnard: Right. But you’ve gotta be careful about disagreeing from the perspective of if you are pitching to IBM and you think, okay, I’ll put my candidate chair in and I’ve got some kind of notice in there.
[00:15:58] Jason Barnard: Now I’m got to start disagreeing with everything they say. You’ve gotta be careful.
[00:16:03] Steven Davis: Right. I didn’t say everything they say. And you’re right. You have to be careful. It’s one thing to say I disagree. It’s entirely different to say I disagree and here are the three reasons why.
[00:16:15] Jason Barnard: Yeah, brilliant. So LinkedIn is huge.
[00:16:19] Jason Barnard: So you’ve got your foot in the door with the CV, then you’ve got LinkedIn where they’re researching your personality and whether or not you would fit and you’ve got in front of them and there is techniques there. So we’ll dig into that and then we’ll look at Google. But other techniques where I can make sure that I’m standing in front of the right people at IBM and being noticed by them would be to identify the corporate structure and see who’s above the person who’s immediately talking to me.
[00:16:47] Jason Barnard: Would that be a good strategy or is that jumping the gun?
[00:16:52] Steven Davis: Well, I would like to ask you one question before I answer that. Is there a job at IBM that you applied to and now you’re looking at the structure to see where the bodies are buried?
[00:17:05] Jason Barnard: Yeah. My theory here, the discussion is around the idea that I’ve applied to IBM for a high level executive position.
[00:17:13] Jason Barnard: And whoever’s looking at my application profile knows who I am. Can I attract the attention of their boss and try to get the boss to interject or is that a foolish and stupid thing to do?
[00:17:29] Steven Davis: I don’t think there’s anything wrong with attracting attention from their boss, especially if it’s a high level job.
[00:17:35] Steven Davis: If it’s a C-level position and you find maybe a chief operating officer who might be equal to or above the person that you want to interview you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. What’s the worst that could happen? You’ll get no response.
[00:17:51] Jason Barnard: Right. So ignoring networking and using LinkedIn to network with the people within the company who are liable to talk to each other about this particular position.
[00:18:01] Jason Barnard: The more you are visible, the more you are mentioned, the more that they’re aware of you, the better, but don’t make negative impressions.
[00:18:10] Steven Davis: Correct. And I’d like to add one thing. You don’t want to come across as being desperate. Because if you…
[00:18:19] Steven Davis: Thank you for that reaction!
[00:18:23] Steven Davis: …if you connect with the recruiter and you connect with the VP and then you say, oh, let’s see who else I can connect with.
[00:18:29] Steven Davis: And you start going to, you know, the C-level people and auxiliary people that might be connected to the hiring manager, they talk. The recruiter could say, Hey, did you see Jason connected with Steve Davis and Frank Smith and Harriet Jones. He’s all over the place. Maybe he’s got a problem. We have that one chance to make that impression.
[00:18:59] Jason Barnard: Right? It makes me think that there’s a balance between enthusiasm and desperation
[00:19:07] Steven Davis: Precisely.
[00:19:09] Jason Barnard: Right. So you’ve gotta hit that balance fight. Now you are talking about the first impression, so we can move on to that. I mean, for me, I keep talking about that Google result for your name is a kind of first impression.
[00:19:20] Jason Barnard: It’s not the first impression somebody will have because if they’re searching your name and you pop up, then they know who you are. But it’s their first impression of Google’s opinion of you. And we use Google because we trust it. Therefore, Google’s opinion of us is super important. What do you think of that theory?
[00:19:38] Steven Davis: Oh, you’re setting me up for that one.
[00:19:40] Steven Davis: You know, I’m coaching a few people at Google. And yes, and I have been for quite a while. Let me suffice this to say that I don’t believe everything I read and I believe maybe 40% of what I hear.
[00:20:02] Jason Barnard: Okay.
[00:20:05] Steven Davis: Make sense?
[00:20:06] Jason Barnard: Yep, it does. I mean from my perspective, I mean, I assume you use Google, or maybe Bing or maybe ChatGPT, but the idea of using one of these machines, one of these algorithms, these engines, is to get a solution to a problem or an answer to a question, and we use the one we trust the most.
[00:20:25] Jason Barnard: Let’s not say trust a hundred percent. So you are using the one you trust the most and you are using it to find information. Can we tone it down a little bit and would you agree that what Google, if you are using Google, what Google says about me, Jason Barnard does matter a little bit?
[00:20:41] Steven Davis: Yeah.
[00:20:42] Jason Barnard: Jolly good!
[00:20:43] Jason Barnard: That’s I was feeding you that question. You gave me the answer the simplest as I love it. So if we can wrap all of that up with a career pivot, can you just summarize how I should approach it, whether it’s moving within a company upwards or from one company to another? I’m definitely trying to move up. What are my three or four steps that I need to really pay attention to?
[00:21:13] Steven Davis: Let’s talk about internally first and then externally. There’s an old expression. In fact, my father, God rest his soul, he would always tell me, in order to be successful, Steve, it’s not really what you know, it’s who you know. Have you ever heard that expression?
[00:21:32] Jason Barnard: I have, but not from your father.
[00:21:35] Steven Davis: Okay. Well, that’s very funny. The more I became involved in coaching, the more I realized that is not true. What is what you know is important. However, what’s more important is who knows you.
[00:21:57] Jason Barnard: Ah, ooh. I like that.
[00:22:00] Steven Davis: Internal mobility is a lot of work that I do. I coach groups of people in Fortune 500 companies and startups, and many, many people want to move up, and they asked me the same question you just did.
[00:22:16] Steven Davis: How can I move up? Should I just contact every, you know, Tom, Dick, and Harry? What do I do? It’s who knows you. So if you’re working at a company and you’re Jason, you want to move up in the organization, whether you want to change your line of business where you’re working, or you want to stay where you are and just receive a promotion with more compensation, more responsibility, have the decision makers make a list.
[00:22:44] Steven Davis: Who has the authority to offer you a position? Who has the influencing ability to influence decision makers to consider Jason in the event that a position opens up that Jason’s qualified for? That’s your hit list. Then go on the company’s org chart. Look at all the people that these senior level, C-level people have reporting to them.
[00:23:13] Steven Davis: Read what they write about themselves on the org chart on the About Me page in the company. Knowledge is power. So you want to move to, you know, a different part of the firm. Start to communicate with people that could potentially hire you or recommend that you be considered and simply IM them or email them.
[00:23:39] Steven Davis: Keep companies love to brag about a win. You know, IBM, we just won, we just saw this cloud, we just introduced this new, you know, technology. It’s going a lot. Look the people up that have something to do with this press release and message them internally. I just noticed you had a big win. You don’t know me. I don’t know you.
[00:24:00] Steven Davis: I just wanted to congratulate you. Great job. Now, some people are curious. They would say, who is this, Steve? They’ll, I don’t know, Steve. Got to look him up. And then you won. They know who you are. So that’s my executive coaching methodology for internal mobility. Increase your visibility, increase your awareness.
[00:24:29] Jason Barnard: Make sure the right people know you.
[00:24:32] Steven Davis: Yes. And also your line manager must understand that you’re a leader and not just a manager. As you know, Jason, there’s a big difference. Managers are task managers. Hey, Steve, did you do this job? I asked you to do this three weeks ago. How’s it going? A leader is, Steve, how’s it going? Do you need my help? Is there any area that you need some support on? Are you facing any obstacles? Let’s talk about it. Demonstrating your ability to communicate in a way that is emotionally intelligent. Because the first two pillars of emotional intelligence are self-awareness and awareness of others. So if Jason is aware that Jason knows what he’s doing, he’s a leader, then everyone he contacts or communicates with is going to sense that he is a leader because Jason is putting it out there in the universe.
[00:25:31] Jason Barnard: Right. Absolute. And that also goes for moving externally.
[00:25:36] Steven Davis: It does. It does. However, moving externally is a lot more challenging because you’re competing against who knows how many other candidates for positions. So there’s a whole other equation involved in external mobility. And the focal point is, like we discussed a minute ago, not to come across as being desperate.
[00:26:02] Steven Davis: Oh, I saw this position, I’m great for it. And you write a cover letter. You know, I’m so excited. I really wanted. And then a lot of people on LinkedIn had to have this open to work which LinkedIn provides people, huge mistake. Huge mistake. It could be misinterpreted as being desperate.
[00:26:22] Jason Barnard: Okay.
[00:26:22] Steven Davis: So yeah. So externally, you have to follow the process. It’s important to apply to the job, to get your resume, to get a high score when it’s scanned in an applicant tracking system. And to follow up and to contact people who are the decision makers. You can find all this out by asking your friend, Google.
[00:26:40] Steven Davis: It’s easy.
[00:26:43] Jason Barnard: Yep. My friend Google. And I think that’s the big one for from this perspective is people don’t follow up. They think, well, the person’s got to contact me ’cause I’m obviously so brilliant and people don’t see your brilliance in your CV. That personality aspect that you talked about and the fact that emotional and personality traits are got to be hugely important. Simply don’t come up in a CV. They don’t come across in a CV, so nobody will know who you are truly until you follow up or they’ve looked you up on LinkedIn. But following up is hugely important. I think people feel that they don’t need to or feel embarrassed.
[00:27:22] Jason Barnard: What would you say to those people?
[00:27:25] Steven Davis: I would say that it’s not about them. It’s not about feeling embarrassed. It’s not about feeling outside your comfort zones. If you want the job, you’ve got to follow up because that is the last chance you have to reinforce your candidacy for the position, whether it’s internal or it’s external.
[00:27:44] Steven Davis: And when I was recruiting, anytime I saw an email from someone following up with me from my interview, and they ended with I look forward to hearing from you. This person, not good. Not good.
[00:27:59] Jason Barnard: That is the perfect place to end it because that last line, I’m looking forward to hearing from you is such a killer.
[00:28:06] Jason Barnard: Thank you so much, Steven. That was brilliant. You get the outro song. A quick goodbye to end the show. Thank you, Steven.
[00:28:16] Steven Davis: Jason, thank you. If you go on the road, I’m got to buy tickets.
[00:28:21] Jason Barnard: Brilliant. Thank you so much.
[00:28:24] Steven Davis: My pleasure.
[00:28:25] Narrator: Your Corporate and Personal Brands are what Google and AI say they are.
[00:28:30] Narrator: We can give you back control. Kalicube.
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